Or conversely, imagine the sun and moon comparatively equal in size making their circuit, along with the wandering stars and countless other celestial bodies, moving around the face of a level, stationary earth every 24 hours, with Polaris centered above.
"... a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me." -- 1 Cor 9:17
"That in the dispensation of the fulness of times..." -- Eph 1:10
"If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery..." -- Eph 3:2-3
"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air; and so shall we ever be with the Lord." -- 1 Thess 4:16-17
It's clear this catching up of the saints happens before Hebrews thru Rev, the time of Jacob's Trouble, i.e. Israel.
Thank you. These quotes seem to be have a different meaning than I was referring to. I meant dispensationalism as in that God deals with his people differently in different times in history. I'm not sure that's true. God doesn't change.
I grew up with the doctrine of the rapture but I no longer believe it since learning about the origin. Doesn't it seem weird that it only came about in the nineteenth century when John Darby made it up? I wish it were true! It's infinitely more comforting than the alternative. Which is that we believers also go through the great tribulation, if it is still to come and not referencing an event that already happened as some say.
I think when Jesus comes back to earth, everyone will see him. Yes, his people will be caught up to meet him in the air when he returns, but it doesn't necessarily mean we will be taken to heaven at that time. Maybe we return to earth with him as his army when we are transformed in the air.
I don't know. Bible interpretation is always debatable and I see things differently and have new epiphanies all the time as I learn and grow. I'm definitely not in your league as a bible scholar. I'm just a fellow believer who reads her bible, but this is how I see it today.
You are incredibly gifted and a blessing to read. I appreciate you standing up for the Truth of His Word when “Christians” attempt to mislead others here on Substack.
I Thoroughly enjoyed your excellent article and also the comment and your reply to Kyle Winslow. My lingering question is at what point in the scripture does this current dispensation (the church age) end? For example, is it after (2 Thess. 1-3.... after the Antichrist is revealed/ sits in the temple) or elsewhere in the scripture?) When this current dispensation (the church age) ends, will those who believed in Jesus as the Christ/ Messiah, those who are under the 2nd covenant (both Jews and gentiles) be raptured/ caught up to meet Christ in the Air (Catching Away) before the beginning of the next dispensation (the great tribulation)? Or will "The Church" the believers in Christ go through some or all of the great tribulation before Christ's 2nd coming. Any clarification on this would be much appreciated.
Paul writes that we are "... to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come." 1 Thess 1:10
"For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him." 1 Thess 5:9,10
"Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest..." Rom 16:25
Since we are living in a period of time that was kept secret, it cannot be prophetic. Christ can come at any time to remove his Body from the earth, and will, because it is not subject to his wrath. God is longsuffering, and withholding his wrath today for his body's sake, "...not willing that any should perish but that all should come unto repentance".
The Day of the Lord (prophetic) and the Day of Christ (a mystery) can be cleared up by looking at Scriptural references to both.
Have your "Scripture flipping" gloves on, he goes through a lot of verses. Ultimately, as you must know, we must be convinced in our own minds, not by man's word buy by God's.
Thank you for the link to Justin Johnson, I will study this. I have previously studied the Biblical evidences for a pre-tribulation rapture but the lingering questions continue to surround the scripture passage in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 KJV. This scripture passage (2 Thess. 2:2) uses the term "day of Christ" and therefore seems to be referring to the rapture. Every time I read this passage and verse, it says to me that “first” there must be a falling away AND the man of sin be revealed BEFORE “that day” occurs. To me, this always seems to say that the “that day” will not happen until both 1.) there is a falling away AND 2.) the man of sin is revealed.
This question has plagued me for some time and I look forward to receiving clarification from the Holy Spirit and the link you provided.
I see what you mean. I Thess Ch. 4 certainly refers to our catching up, alive or asleep, to meet the Lord in the air. Then there's the Day of the Lord phrasing, which always seems to be related to his 2nd coming. 2 Thess:1-4 contains different language: the coming of our LJC, our gathering together, and the day of Christ.
My understanding is that the context of Chapters 1 and 2 concerns the 2nd coming of Christ. Paul then throws in the "day of Christ" (vs. 2) and says don't be troubled: we will escape beforehand. He then reverts back to "that day" in vs. 3, again in context with 2nd coming.
I take this position because it aligns with Paul's epistles in general. We are not to be deceived that the Anti-christ is on the scene. "At hand" in vs. 2 indicates we will be removed first. "The day" and "that day" seem to be clues. In Paul's writings, "that day" always appears to refer to 2nd coming. "The day" is what we are waiting for... it's at hand.
In prophetic Scriptures, "the day" (in context) always refers to Christ's coming to the earth to fulfil all that was written about the coming Kingdom of Heaven. The prophets were not privy to the mysteries revealed to Paul.
Exceptions: "that day" and "the day of the Lord" seem to be the same. Whoa! This is what it means to "study to shew thyself approved..." It's not a light thing to read God's Word.
Thank you for your detailed replies to my question. I will carefully consider what you have explained and again study this scripture passage 2 Thess. 2:1-4 (in context with the entire book of 2 Thess. as well as other related scripture passages). I will continue to pray for the Holy Spirit's enlightenment.
Excellent material here. I am always puzzled when people ask- 'But why would the Elites hide the nature of our reality?' And oftentimes this coming from people that KNOW Evolution is a lie!
It's a very good thing that God's mercy trumps His Judgement. If we were judged based on perfection of doctrine, nobody would make it.
Speaking of that, I may have honestly misunderstood, but when you say, 'No Repentance Required.' Are you actually saying we don't have to ask Jesus Christ to forgive our Crimes against Him? That when He asked us to pray, 'Forgive us our Trespasses, as we forgive those who Trespass against us.' He *wasn't* referring to us being Judged and Condemned for failure to be perfectly Holy?
You ask your readers to know God's Word. Well, Scripture is rife with calls to Repentance, here's just a few more-
Jesus says, “I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance” (Luke 5:32)
Jesus told his disciples to proclaim “repentance and forgiveness of sins” in his name to all the nations (Luke 24:47).
When the apostles preached in Acts, they called people to repent of their sins in order to be forgiven (See Acts 2:38, 3:19, 8:32, 17:30, 20:21, 26:20).
The apostle Paul makes it clear that those whose lives are characterized by sin “will not inherit the kingdom of God” (1 Cor. 6:9-10; see also Rom. 8:12-13, Gal. 5:21, Eph. 5:5).
Right. I thought that would provoke someone's thoughts. And here you are with excellent feedback.
You might be aware that Christ's ministry was to none but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matt 15:24). He wasn't referring to "us" at all, but to those disciples who followed him.
"Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand."
The KofH is not preached today. God set Israel and their earthly kingdom promises aside when he saved the chief of sinners, a blasphemer of the Holy Spirit and a murderer of the saints, Saul of Tarsus. He could not be forgiven in that world nor in the world to come. But he could be saved by grace, through faith alone. And that is the new msg he was given to preach. "To make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery...", Eph 3:9.
God is saving all men today by the gospel of Christ which was revealed to Paul after Christ left the earth. A mystery kept secret or "the princes of this world would not have crucified the Lord of glory."
You and I become children/heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ... by the gospel of the cross.
Remember, Christ had not gone to the cross when he was preaching the Kingdom of Heaven was at hand. Israel did not go into the kingdom because, as a nation, rejected their Messiah. But Christ revealed to Paul something never known in times past. That the Gentiles could be saved without the law.
Now you know how to "rightly divide the word of truth" (2 Tim 2:15). Our inheritance is separate from Israel's and as New Creatures, in heavenly places. However, when you read of the "Kingdom of God" (another mystery) you can be sure God will bring all things in the ages to come under Christ and his future kingdom in both a new heaven and a new earth. Some believe we will replace those fallen angels.
When I say "repentance not required", I mean we don't have to ask forgiveness because we know through our Apostle Paul, all trespasses have been forgiven upon trusting the gospel, Col 2:13. A "change of mind" is what I think of when one hears and believes the gospel. It is then incumbent upon us to study the Bible, rightly divided, to take on the mind of Christ... a much longer process,, Phil 2:5, 1 Cor 2:16.
When God turns again to fulfilling prophecy, Israel, in their new kingdom, will have the Holy Ghost upon them and the law written in their hearts. So much more, but that is what I love to write about.
It seems you believe in dispensationalism and the rapture of the church before the second coming of Christ. Is this correct?
"... a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me." -- 1 Cor 9:17
"That in the dispensation of the fulness of times..." -- Eph 1:10
"If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery..." -- Eph 3:2-3
"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air; and so shall we ever be with the Lord." -- 1 Thess 4:16-17
It's clear this catching up of the saints happens before Hebrews thru Rev, the time of Jacob's Trouble, i.e. Israel.
Thank you. These quotes seem to be have a different meaning than I was referring to. I meant dispensationalism as in that God deals with his people differently in different times in history. I'm not sure that's true. God doesn't change.
I grew up with the doctrine of the rapture but I no longer believe it since learning about the origin. Doesn't it seem weird that it only came about in the nineteenth century when John Darby made it up? I wish it were true! It's infinitely more comforting than the alternative. Which is that we believers also go through the great tribulation, if it is still to come and not referencing an event that already happened as some say.
I think when Jesus comes back to earth, everyone will see him. Yes, his people will be caught up to meet him in the air when he returns, but it doesn't necessarily mean we will be taken to heaven at that time. Maybe we return to earth with him as his army when we are transformed in the air.
I don't know. Bible interpretation is always debatable and I see things differently and have new epiphanies all the time as I learn and grow. I'm definitely not in your league as a bible scholar. I'm just a fellow believer who reads her bible, but this is how I see it today.
You are incredibly gifted and a blessing to read. I appreciate you standing up for the Truth of His Word when “Christians” attempt to mislead others here on Substack.
Very kind, thank you :)
I Thoroughly enjoyed your excellent article and also the comment and your reply to Kyle Winslow. My lingering question is at what point in the scripture does this current dispensation (the church age) end? For example, is it after (2 Thess. 1-3.... after the Antichrist is revealed/ sits in the temple) or elsewhere in the scripture?) When this current dispensation (the church age) ends, will those who believed in Jesus as the Christ/ Messiah, those who are under the 2nd covenant (both Jews and gentiles) be raptured/ caught up to meet Christ in the Air (Catching Away) before the beginning of the next dispensation (the great tribulation)? Or will "The Church" the believers in Christ go through some or all of the great tribulation before Christ's 2nd coming. Any clarification on this would be much appreciated.
Paul writes that we are "... to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come." 1 Thess 1:10
"For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him." 1 Thess 5:9,10
"Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest..." Rom 16:25
Since we are living in a period of time that was kept secret, it cannot be prophetic. Christ can come at any time to remove his Body from the earth, and will, because it is not subject to his wrath. God is longsuffering, and withholding his wrath today for his body's sake, "...not willing that any should perish but that all should come unto repentance".
The Day of the Lord (prophetic) and the Day of Christ (a mystery) can be cleared up by looking at Scriptural references to both.
May I refer you to Justin Johnson's GraceAmbassador's ministry and his clarification of the terms? https://graceambassadors.com/prophecy/days-of-the-lord.
Have your "Scripture flipping" gloves on, he goes through a lot of verses. Ultimately, as you must know, we must be convinced in our own minds, not by man's word buy by God's.
Thank you for the link to Justin Johnson, I will study this. I have previously studied the Biblical evidences for a pre-tribulation rapture but the lingering questions continue to surround the scripture passage in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 KJV. This scripture passage (2 Thess. 2:2) uses the term "day of Christ" and therefore seems to be referring to the rapture. Every time I read this passage and verse, it says to me that “first” there must be a falling away AND the man of sin be revealed BEFORE “that day” occurs. To me, this always seems to say that the “that day” will not happen until both 1.) there is a falling away AND 2.) the man of sin is revealed.
This question has plagued me for some time and I look forward to receiving clarification from the Holy Spirit and the link you provided.
I see what you mean. I Thess Ch. 4 certainly refers to our catching up, alive or asleep, to meet the Lord in the air. Then there's the Day of the Lord phrasing, which always seems to be related to his 2nd coming. 2 Thess:1-4 contains different language: the coming of our LJC, our gathering together, and the day of Christ.
My understanding is that the context of Chapters 1 and 2 concerns the 2nd coming of Christ. Paul then throws in the "day of Christ" (vs. 2) and says don't be troubled: we will escape beforehand. He then reverts back to "that day" in vs. 3, again in context with 2nd coming.
I take this position because it aligns with Paul's epistles in general. We are not to be deceived that the Anti-christ is on the scene. "At hand" in vs. 2 indicates we will be removed first. "The day" and "that day" seem to be clues. In Paul's writings, "that day" always appears to refer to 2nd coming. "The day" is what we are waiting for... it's at hand.
In prophetic Scriptures, "the day" (in context) always refers to Christ's coming to the earth to fulfil all that was written about the coming Kingdom of Heaven. The prophets were not privy to the mysteries revealed to Paul.
Exceptions: "that day" and "the day of the Lord" seem to be the same. Whoa! This is what it means to "study to shew thyself approved..." It's not a light thing to read God's Word.
Thank you for your detailed replies to my question. I will carefully consider what you have explained and again study this scripture passage 2 Thess. 2:1-4 (in context with the entire book of 2 Thess. as well as other related scripture passages). I will continue to pray for the Holy Spirit's enlightenment.
Excellent material here. I am always puzzled when people ask- 'But why would the Elites hide the nature of our reality?' And oftentimes this coming from people that KNOW Evolution is a lie!
It's a very good thing that God's mercy trumps His Judgement. If we were judged based on perfection of doctrine, nobody would make it.
Speaking of that, I may have honestly misunderstood, but when you say, 'No Repentance Required.' Are you actually saying we don't have to ask Jesus Christ to forgive our Crimes against Him? That when He asked us to pray, 'Forgive us our Trespasses, as we forgive those who Trespass against us.' He *wasn't* referring to us being Judged and Condemned for failure to be perfectly Holy?
You ask your readers to know God's Word. Well, Scripture is rife with calls to Repentance, here's just a few more-
Jesus says, “I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance” (Luke 5:32)
Jesus told his disciples to proclaim “repentance and forgiveness of sins” in his name to all the nations (Luke 24:47).
When the apostles preached in Acts, they called people to repent of their sins in order to be forgiven (See Acts 2:38, 3:19, 8:32, 17:30, 20:21, 26:20).
The apostle Paul makes it clear that those whose lives are characterized by sin “will not inherit the kingdom of God” (1 Cor. 6:9-10; see also Rom. 8:12-13, Gal. 5:21, Eph. 5:5).
Right. I thought that would provoke someone's thoughts. And here you are with excellent feedback.
You might be aware that Christ's ministry was to none but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matt 15:24). He wasn't referring to "us" at all, but to those disciples who followed him.
"Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand."
The KofH is not preached today. God set Israel and their earthly kingdom promises aside when he saved the chief of sinners, a blasphemer of the Holy Spirit and a murderer of the saints, Saul of Tarsus. He could not be forgiven in that world nor in the world to come. But he could be saved by grace, through faith alone. And that is the new msg he was given to preach. "To make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery...", Eph 3:9.
God is saving all men today by the gospel of Christ which was revealed to Paul after Christ left the earth. A mystery kept secret or "the princes of this world would not have crucified the Lord of glory."
You and I become children/heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ... by the gospel of the cross.
Remember, Christ had not gone to the cross when he was preaching the Kingdom of Heaven was at hand. Israel did not go into the kingdom because, as a nation, rejected their Messiah. But Christ revealed to Paul something never known in times past. That the Gentiles could be saved without the law.
Now you know how to "rightly divide the word of truth" (2 Tim 2:15). Our inheritance is separate from Israel's and as New Creatures, in heavenly places. However, when you read of the "Kingdom of God" (another mystery) you can be sure God will bring all things in the ages to come under Christ and his future kingdom in both a new heaven and a new earth. Some believe we will replace those fallen angels.
When I say "repentance not required", I mean we don't have to ask forgiveness because we know through our Apostle Paul, all trespasses have been forgiven upon trusting the gospel, Col 2:13. A "change of mind" is what I think of when one hears and believes the gospel. It is then incumbent upon us to study the Bible, rightly divided, to take on the mind of Christ... a much longer process,, Phil 2:5, 1 Cor 2:16.
When God turns again to fulfilling prophecy, Israel, in their new kingdom, will have the Holy Ghost upon them and the law written in their hearts. So much more, but that is what I love to write about.